Why Do Human Relationships Still Win in Finance, Fundraising, and Leadership? ft. Hemant Godhwani

[00:00:01] Hemant:  My belief is that investing and fundraising essentially remains a relationship-driven thing. If an investor chooses to invest money in you, they do think that you are a better avenue for that money versus other hundreds of companies that are seeking for the same capital. So, there has to be something in you that they want to invest their money in you. 

[00:00:25] Ella:  Welcome to Humans of Mews, part of the Future is Human podcast. I'm Ella McCann Tomlin, and this is where we surface the human stories that often go untold at work. The turning points, the unconventional past, the things that shape who we are beyond our job titles. These are the intimate conversations with people across Mews about their journeys told on their own terms. 

[00:00:49] Ella:  Welcome to The Future is Human. Today, we're joined by Hemant Godwani, who is Mew's VP of Corporate Finance and Development. Hemant brings a huge blend of finance and technology experience, having spent over a decade at JPMorgan Investment Banking, working on complex transactions across Europe, the U.S, and Asia Pacific, before joining Mews to help steer our financial strategy and growth. So, at Mews, Hemant leads everything from fundraising and investor relations to capital allocation, M&A strategy, and IPO readiness, playing a central role in shaping how we scale responsibly in a rapidly evolving tech landscape. So, in this conversation, we're gonna explore what human leadership looks like in the world of high-stakes finance and tech scale-ups. From navigating pressure and decision-making in global finance markets to building trust with investors and teams, we're gonna unpack how human judgment and relationships remain irreplaceable even in a world increasingly shaped by automation and data. So, thanks for joining, Hemant. We're thrilled to have you on the show. 

[00:01:54] Hemant:  Thank you so much for having me. Excited. 

[00:01:57] Ella:  Me too. Just to jump straight in, I know a little bit about your history. But for the listener, you spent over a decade at JPMorgan working in investment banking across global markets. What originally drew you to that world, and what kept you there for so long? 

[00:02:15] Hemant:  Yeah. I always wanted to have a very strategic view of things, right? And from the beginning, I always had this fascination with not working in any particular department or just sitting on top of everything and having a view about everything. So, despite having done my graduation in engineering, I'm a computer science engineer. I did my MBA in finance and accounting immediately after that, and I never did a job in engineering despite being an engineer. And whilst doing my MBA, I got to know the world of investment banking in a lot of detail, and that's something that always fascinated me, right? I think what you typically do is you are flying all over to meet your clients, you are executing high-stakes deals, there is time pressure, but you get the opportunity to work with really, really senior people. So, mostly you're working with CEOs, CFOs, founders, like, that's your audience that you're hanging out with, day in, day out. And, personally, I love the thought of having certain experiences and being in such an environment. So, that's what basically drew me to it. I was really hungry to make a career out of it. And I think in investment banking, that's very important. I think you can't really be in investment banking for a very long time unless you're very hungry to do well in that job. It's a very, very demanding job, and it's a very tough job. But I think I was just hungry to do it, and I was very passionate about it. It was a really good drive while it lasted. So, yeah, very happy I could do it for more than a decade. 

[00:03:39] Ella:  And I think lots of people associate that world, perhaps, with a glamorous but also very intense you've got shows like Industry and things like that, which portray a certain glossy, high-stakes, very intense picture. How much did it live up to what you're expecting, and what did that environment teach you about decision-making and leadership in very, very high-pressure environments? 

[00:04:05] Hemant:  So, look, I haven't personally seen Industry, but I've heard a lot about it. I think we have discussed it on a couple of occasions in the past. I think whatever they show, it's not completely untrue. So, I think those sorts of environments and those sorts of teams do exist, right, so it's a very high-pressure, long-hours job. So, when I got into the job, I was expecting it. I was expecting it to be something like that. So, I went in with my eyes wide open. What surprised me was how quickly I was pulled into it. Right? So, I remember being, like, three or four weeks into the job, and we had a very important client meeting. And we just find out about it a day or two before, and we start working through the deck. And I come into the office at, like, 8 AM in the morning. And usually, you work late. Right? You work till, I don't know, 8 PM, 9 PM, and then you beam. On this particular instance, I stayed in the office till, like, 9 AM the next day. So, we were in the office the whole night. 

[00:05:01] Ella:  24 hours? 

[00:05:01] Hemant: 24 hours, which I was like, is this normal, or is this what this is like? So, I was brought into that world very, very quickly. So, yeah, my expectations were set from really the early days of banking. I think what it taught me was a few things. Right? One is, of course, working very hard. I think since the beginning, I've had a focus on really, really hard work to continue moving up your career and continue to be successful. I don't think there is an alternative to hard work, and I think this job definitely taught me that. From a leadership perspective, it's very interesting. Right? Because what this entails is that when you're building a team, people will often leave because not everyone wants to have such a lifestyle for a really extended period of time. So, it's very important how you learn to get people on the mission with you, right? Because sometimes, or on a lot of occasions, when you're working on deals, it's truly like a war zone. Right? You have to be intensely focused. You have to be in there. You have to be working long hours. And unless the people you're working with are motivated to do it or they think we are all solutioning towards a mission, it's very hard to jump on that bandwagon. So, I think from a leadership style, what this job taught me was to bring people in early. Like, give them the sense of responsibility that it's not just me driving the bus, and you are just helping me with all the analysis. You are an active contributor to what we're doing here. And once you start decentralising some of this and giving people responsibility, they react to it. And that's what I've seen. A lot of people who don't think they are national leaders or who don't think they want responsibility, that tenet comes out. And then you're very surprised, and then they're also very surprised. But that makes for the best type of leadership because you're learning about each other very well. The second thing was also focusing on work-life balance. So, I think during my time, you had all different types of leaders. Some are very intense and have no focus on balance. I think I was of a school of thought where I thought about it that you have to work very hard, but you also have to do smart work. And all this follows the 80-20 rule. So, focus on the things that contribute 80% of the value rather than getting the last 20% correct, because that means you'll be spending a disproportionate amount of time getting that last piece. Right? And sometimes it's not needed. So, making judgment calls of where people should and should not spend time really helps them have a better experience in such a hardworking environment. So, yeah, I think those are the key learnings from my time there. 

[00:07:25] Ella:  And it's interesting that you say that you learned about balance in such an environment where a lot of the time, it was like a war zone. Sometimes you're in there for 24 hours straight. How do you find balance in that kind of environment? Is it possible? Do you have a little bit of autonomy? Can you say, okay, well, I work 24 hours on this to get this thing over the finish line, and then next week, I'm going on holiday. How do you find that kind of balance? Because I don't know, honestly, that a lot of people, myself included, would survive that, and certainly not for such a prolonged period of time as a decade. I think I'd burn out within maybe a couple of years. So, how do you find that balance in an environment that is inherently imbalanced at least some of the time? 

[00:08:05] Hemant:  It's a challenge. Look. It's a challenge because, ultimately, you're working with very strong personalities. And especially people who thrive in this job are those that are extremely driven, that have a very high agency, who are extremely motivated. And you are working with these people. Right? And it's very hard to find that balance if they do not want you to find that balance. Right? So, I think it's a hard environment to be in. If you're a manager, I think it's your responsibility to take care of your employees and make sure that they're not burning out or make sure that when they have spent a lot of time working through, you give them the appropriate breaks. So, I think having that sort of foresight and knowing when to say enough is enough, and let's just take a break and let's call it off for some time, and just cool off and then come back. In terms of vacations, absolutely, you have to take it. Right? Because I think what I used to do whilst I was leading my teams at JPMorgan is I would encourage them to actively block holidays in their calendars, because usually it's so busy that if you don't block it, you will not be taking holidays. Like, you just go from one day to the next, and you do not have the time. Whereas if you block it, you know that, intentionally, you have to take a break. And during this time, what I would use to focus on was saying that you should not connect anything. You should not look at any emails, anything, or your phone or your laptop. Just take a total break so that you can recover. And then when you come back, it's better for not just you, but for us as well. The key thing here is to think about this whole thing as a win-win situation. Right? So, if your employee is motivated, if your employee is happy, if they are well rested, you will get more out of them and for a longer period of time. So, it is in your interest to give them that break, to make sure that they are taking that holiday, to make sure that they are recovering. Because if you don't do that, they will either not have the energy to contribute to the same level of intensity or they will burn out and leave, so you'll be recruiting a new person. So, why go into the scenario of lose-lose? Just think about it as a win-win and position it as such. Be very transparent with your employees, and I think that's how you make it work. 

[00:10:08] Ella:  Yeah. What you were just saying reminds me of there was an anecdote from Serena Williams' husband, whose name is Alexis Ohani, and he's a tech entrepreneur. And when they first got together, he said that she had said to him, “You're working a lot.” And he saw it as a compliment, right? He was like, Serena Williams thinks that I work hard. And she was like, this is not a compliment. This is not a good thing. Like, you cannot get the best out of yourself if you're not taking any kind of rest. As an athlete who knows that in a very visceral physical way, she could obviously make that kind of statement. Like, to be the best and to be able to push yourself to that crazy limit and to see what your body can do and see what your mind can do, whatever the context is, there is no way you can do that without rest. And so I always come back to that and remember that anecdote because he was wearing that as a badge of honour and actually probably was not achieving everything that he could achieve because of it. 

[00:11:01] Hemant:  That's a very interesting analogy. That reminds me of what our CEO, Matt, says, right, because you do need to defer the responsibility of booking holidays to your employees, because everyone is an adult, and they should be booking it actively. But what he is doing? He is actively promoting his own holidays. And he's saying, if I, as the CEO, can take holidays, why can't you? What's stopping you? And there should be nothing that's stopping you. And that I find very motivating because if you have leaders who can lead that way, then it becomes much more easier for employees to pull up. 

[00:11:30] Ella:  Yeah. That's real leading by example. I also had an experience in my early career where my boss would tell us all, take your holiday, don't be online, etcetera, but he would always be online on his holiday. And so you do end up with that seed of doubt, which is like, I'm now a manager in this person's team. What's the expectation? He's telling me to take it, but he's not modelling that. So, is there an unwritten rule here that I'm not picking up on? So, I think exactly to your point, doing it yourself and leading by example and saying, I'm the CEO, and you cannot reach me for the next two weeks is a really important message to send. Just to go back to the piece before your journey to JPMorgan, you moved to the UK, I think, around the same time that you took that role, just over a decade ago, from India. What was that transition like for you, both personally and professionally? 

[00:12:19] Hemant:  It seems like a long time back. So, I moved to the UK from India in 2015, and I'd always lived in India up until that time, right? So personally, it was really, really hard. The cultural differences are really huge between India and the UK. And when I came in, I knew a few people, but the social circle was really small. I had no family in the UK. All my family was in India. And the distance and the time difference take a toll because during summers, you have four and a four-and-a-half-hour time difference. During winters, it's five and a half hours. So, it's not even easy to connect with them whenever you want. And especially as I was telling you, the job was very intense. You come back late at night. That's when you want to talk to someone and have a chat with your friends and your family. But most of the people in India would be asleep by then because of the time difference. So, it took a good two years for me to settle in London. Like, it was not easy at all to get over the time difference, the lack of family in the country, and generally getting over the cultural differences. Once I got into it, I realised that London is such a great city, and it has so much to offer, and it's so multicultural. I still live in the city and absolutely love the city. Professionally, I think it was easier. I did feel that JP Morgan has an immense talent of people, so all the people that I used to work with were very, very talented. I think when it comes to how they approach and perceive work, what was really interesting and, again, this goes back to the cultural difference that I'm talking about, that you have a life outside work. Like, everybody used to have some sort of thing that they were very passionate about, be it running, be it sports, be it reading. You name it. Right? Everybody had something that they would do outside work, and they made sure that they took out time to do it. And I think that is a concept that's not very well understood in India. So, I think that was a big change, but I found it a refreshing change that you are encouraged to develop other parts of your personality that do not work, which includes running. So, for example, I was not a runner when I used to be in India, but now I run 3, 4 times a week. And it's such a big change. And I could have never imagined that I would be running if I were in India. And other things like that. Right? You just develop so much as part of the society. And from a professional perspective, I think that was really, really cool. And working with very, very talented people encouraged me, and it was very, very motivating. So, on the professional side, it was easier. Personal side, took a while. 

[00:14:36] Ella:  I mean, it occurs to me that you must have such a well of resilience in you to come to the UK, have a very small community of people that you know but no family, and then simultaneously to be joining what is widely understood as one of the most intense high-pressure jobs to start with, working all hours of the night without necessarily a huge support system. Do you have a sense of whether that's a sort of an intrinsic thing that you've just always had, that well of resilience in you, because it's a very unique thing that you did to do those things simultaneously, both very hard on their own? 

[00:15:15] Hemant:  No. I hear you. I think it comes from my childhood, the more I think about it. Right? I think growing up in India, I've had a relatively hard childhood. Like, we did not come from money. My parents had to work really hard. And to go through school, to go to college, of course, I had to borrow money from banks to actually put myself through education. So, I think the childhood was hard, but that's where the resilience came. Right? It was you're your own person. You have to stand on your own feet. You just need to be good at whatever you want to be, and then you just have to go really deep and go through it. So, I think it really comes from there, the more I think about it. There's this one quote that I have on my desk as well, right? It’s that nobody likes quitters. And I do not like to quit in any job, right? It's very hard for me to quit anything, and that's why I managed to do it for such a long time. 

[00:16:01] Ella:  Yeah. It's incredibly impressive. Obviously, you've been in the UK for more than ten years now. You've put down roots. You have family here now. And to what extent did that play a role in how you've managed to settle and build a life here? 

[00:16:14] Hemant:  I think if I didn't have a good social circle in London, I would not be living in London. For me, personally, I think that human element is very, very important. I thrive when you have a social circle around you, when you can spend time with them, when you can exchange ideas, when you can hang out, and have fun. I think the reason I struggled during the first few years was that I didn't have that social circle. Like, there were a few people whom I knew really well, but it was not a big group of people. Slowly and steadily, as I spent more time, I met more people, and that's how the social circle grew. But I think it's absolutely put an end to me having such a circle. Ultimately, now, when I look at my time in London, it's been a fantastic time. Like, when I look over the last ten years, especially on the non-professional side, there have been so many changes. Like, I met my wife in London. We have our son, who is 17 months old now, living in London. I have so many good friends living in and around us. And that really contributes to living a more fulfilling life in London. And that really helps you on the professional side as well. Right? Because the more happy you are and the more fulfilled you are on your personal side, you can show and you can give some of that to your direct reports and work as well. 

[00:17:25] Ella:  Yeah. It's all a holistic part of the same picture, isn't it? And I think, actually, when you work in high-intensity environments, it sounds like JPMorgan was a different kind of level of high-intensity environment than Mews. But when you work in high-intensity environments, of which high-growth tech is also one, those things that fill your cup externally and socially and holidays and community and family, I think the need for those is heightened because you cannot give so much to your professional life as we are all asked to do if you don't have that kind of system and if you don't invest in it. And so it sounds also like coming up in such a high-intensity environment, perhaps, taught you even more so than most people the importance of some of those things. Just to talk a little bit about that human side of your role in a bit more depth, there's this perception that fundraising and VC is becoming increasingly automated, right? Like, AI agents potentially can produce pitch materials. Algorithms can give, quote-unquote, unbiased opinions on which companies to invest in. But when we spoke in advance of this call, you said this isn't actually really how it works. Can you tell us what your job really looks like day-to-day now? 

[00:18:37] Hemant:  My belief is that investing and fundraising essentially remains the relationship driven thing. Just to give you an example, the last 2, 3 funding rounds that we have raised, we have brought in investors with whom we had spent years developing relationships before finally bringing them on. I think the way to think about it is if an investor chooses to invest money in you, they do think that you are a better avenue for that money versus other hundreds of companies that are seeking for the same capital. So, there has to be something in you that they want to invest their money in you. And part of that is how well the company is doing, how well the strategy resonates with the investors, how well you are growing and developing the different teams, and what's your ultimate vision of the company. Of course, those things are very important, and the storytelling elements around those things are very important. But ultimately, they also have to have faith and trust in you as a management team that you'll be able to deliver on what you're telling them. And that trust, that faith only comes when you spend time with them. It's very hard for an investor to just come in and listen to the story and say, yes, this is what I want to invest in. Because, fundamentally, if you have not known that person, if you do not have any relationship with that person, how do you know that they're able to deliver on the plan that they have promised you? So, from my perspective, this is essentially a relationship-driven game. Yes. Some of the things that you're talking about have become faster with AI. When you look at, for example, producing pitch decks or working on models that forecast our future, like with Claude plug-ins on Excel and PPT, and God bless Claude, it has become so much faster. Like, you are just so much more efficient and so much faster, and that's what it should be. Like, you shouldn't be spending an awful amount of time doing that. The tools should be there to help you out. But once you have done that, it's ultimately how you interact with the investors, how do you develop the relationships, what is the cadence with which you meet them, how do you tell your story, how do you give an update on your story, and that's a good segue into what my day-to-day looks like because I think I have two hats, right? Part of that is on the corporate finance side when I'm trying to do fundraising. I speak to investors almost on a daily basis because I love to develop new relationships with these investors. I believe we have a very powerful and good story that should resonate with a lot of different investors across the globe. So, the evangelism aspect of it really excites me. So, on a day-to-day basis, I will be talking to investors. For some of the investors that I have spoken to in the past, it will usually be a recurring meeting, but I'll be giving them an update on how we have performed versus what I had told them 3 or 6 months ago. For some of the new investors, I'll be giving them an update on what we do and then setting up meetings in 3 to 6 months so that I can give them an update on how we are performing as part of that. In addition to that, I've also spent a lot of time with our board members and with our existing shareholders, and they want to know what's happening with the company on a day-to-day basis. Where do we need help? Where can they add value? And those conversations also happen on a day-to-day basis. But again, with the whole underlying thing being that there is a relationship of trust and transparency, due to which you are able to have these conversations and take forward these conversations. The other part is on the corporate development side. Look, we are an active M&A company. We buy other companies. So, it's important to have discussions with the sellers of those companies, which may be founders, which may be shareholders, and again, building that relationship where they trust that they can place your company in you. You are a safe house for them and their employees. They are putting their trust in you, which is a very big thing. And it's always like there is this famous thing, right? Heavy is the head that wears the crown. So, it's a big responsibility. You are bringing in so many different employees. You are bringing in people from all over the world. They have the expectations. They have mortgages. And you really have to make sure that you are able to do a good job at it. So, making sure that the relationship exists, the founders trust you, and ultimately, when the right time comes, they're able to sell you their company. I think that's, again, an important part of it. So, I think that's what my typical day-to-day looks like, but it's a lot of conversations. It's a lot of good chats and a bit of analysis as well. 

[00:22:52] Ella:  And in your view, what makes a good investor relationship in particular? I know that you spoke about all the things that you're doing to keep people updated on the progress of the company, and having continual check-ins and conversations. That all sounds quite professional. Do you end up building personal relationships with some of the people that you've built relationships with over years and years? Aside from trust, I guess, is the key component. What is it that makes these relationships really gives them depth and makes them particularly positive? 

[00:23:21] Hemant:  Look. I think when it comes to the first part of the question, right, what are good in these relationships? I think, typically, the conversations where I've found the most depth is when people come to the meetings very well prepared, they know your sector, they know other companies in the space, they know something of you, they have very strong opinions on where the sector will go, how they think the sector has evolved in the past, they know the history in a lot of detail about the sector, that is just such a nice conversation to have because then you feel that the counterparty has done a lot of work and they're really interested in learning about the company, spending more time with you. So, I think that's where it all starts. And then usually what I've seen is it's important to also have a bit of chemistry because conversations just about some numbers or something, they are interesting, but they can also become very dry. So, having a bigger conversation. Right? And this is where history comes. Like, if you can talk about the history of an industry and link it to the history of a country or the history of another place. Like, those are some of the things that add a lot of depth and color and chemistry to the conversation, and that's where you can have a lot of fun talking to these people. The other bits are also, look, I think we are all at a stage of our lives where we have young kids. And sometimes it's just easy to connect on families, and about the composition of your families. I stay in an area in London where a lot of investors or potential investors live in the close vicinity of me. And our kids would be going to the same nurseries or the same schools, or we have looked at the same nurseries or the same schools. And that really kick-starts a very nice conversation because you are dealing with the same problems on the personal side whilst trying to fulfil your professional ambition. So, I think that is another area where you can connect a lot and talk about non-work-related things. And that also shows how does a person think about these things. And why is it important? Because, look, as a company, you are not always going to perform well. There will be times when there will be challenges. There will be rough waters. And you want to ensure that the person you have brought into your house are able to support you in tough times. And some of these conversations really help you understand how the person is overall and how will they support or not support you going into the future. If you take a step back and think about all these topics, the effects are so far-reaching. Like, you don't understand it in that moment, but they really are. I think some of these relationships is you have a really good first or second call. You have a cadence where you are speaking every few months. You're trying to give an update about the company and how it has performed. You talk about various different things. You catch up in person. You do it on Zoom. And some of these investors, I think, are really cool in the way that they'll always come up with ideas. You know, last time you had told us that this is your strategy, but these are the challenges that you face. We think that if you speak to this person, they will be able to help you solve these challenges, or you had said you want to reach out to this customer. I have done the work in the background, and now I can introduce you to this customer and go ahead and talk to them. Like, these are the sort of things which are very, very powerful and very, very helpful. And the good investors, where we do tend to develop good relationships, bring all these things to the team. 

[00:26:29] Ella:  Really interesting. As you were talking now, I was thinking, I could do this. This is kind of exciting, whereas on paper, I would think, no. This isn't an area that I could ever go into. It feels a little bit intimidating. It feels a little bit inhuman, I guess. And, actually, what you're talking about is so deeply human. You're talking about honesty, transparency, being a good storyteller, being able to connect on a human level, chemistry; all of these things are things that you can't really bottle or automate. It also requires charm and personality. All of the things that you've just talked about, charm, chemistry, being a good storyteller, I suppose, are seen as quite extroverted traits. But you said to me beforehand that you're not a naturally extroverted person. How did you learn this? Did the learning journey start at JPMorgan? How did you learn to have such high skills in these areas? 

[00:27:18] Hemant:  It's a combination of both personal and professional. So personal, as I was telling you, right, when I moved to London, I didn't have a network. I had to create one. So, you are forced to put yourself out there and develop those relationships, and you have to talk to people even when it doesn't naturally come to you. And you need to have interesting topics and so on and so forth. So, I think on the personal side, that really helped. On the professional side, absolutely. Right? I think a part of it was the demand on the role where you have to talk to a lot of different founders, and you have to meet them on a consistent basis. And there are several bankers out there competing for the attention of the same founder or the same companies. Right? And you need to have something different to spend more time with you than your competitor. And that just means you really have to find a way to interact with these guys in the language that they understand well. The other thing that also helped was having great mentors at JP Morgan, because I think I lost a lot of inhibitions because of those mentors. And the story that distinctly resonates with me was that we were pitching something to really senior people of one of the private equity funds. And I prepared the whole pitch materials, and my boss was supposed to present it. But once we go into the meeting, he just tells me that you are going to present everything with very little notice. He had spoken to me in the past. 

[00:28:34] Ella:  No notice. 

[00:28:35] Hemant:  No notice. So, he had given me some hints in the past that he might do it, but I was not expecting in that moment that he would do it. It was a nerve-wracking moment. I'm not going to lie. Presented to such senior people when you are not prepared at all. But, ultimately, I think I did a good job at it because, working through all the pitch materials, I knew what were the key areas that we wanted to put across. And I think I was able to do a good job at it. Coming out of the meeting, my confidence was just sky high because I was like, if I could do so well on a task where I was not prepared and presenting to such senior people just on the go, what will I do in meetings where I am prepared? So, I think that just gave me supreme confidence that I can do this very well, and it does not matter if I'm prepared or not. I'll find a way to make a quick pitch, no matter whether I'm prepared or not, no matter whether I know the numbers or not, just because I know several topics that I can talk about to answer the question or to make the pitch. And that was a really surreal moment in my life because that made me realise you have these moments, right, where you realise your own talent, or you think, oh, I never thought I could do this, and you have done this. So, I think that's a defining moment that I always keep going back to what happened in 2018 or 2019, something like that. 

[00:29:52] Ella:  It was early-ish in your JP Morgan career. I suppose what that also does is because it's a high-stakes meeting, that mentor is demonstrating to you that they have faith in you. He simply would not have said that if he thought there was even a moderate risk of it going extremely badly, because that wouldn't have been the moment to test you, right, if in that high-stakes meeting, it would have gone badly for everyone. So, he knew on some level that you were gonna nail it. 

[00:30:19] Hemant:  Exactly. So, I think that's a hallmark of great leaders or great mentors as well. They give you the confidence to do your own thing. If you do well, they give you all the products. If you do badly, they take all the blame. And I think that's another thing that I've learned from my boss at JPMorgan, from my mentor at JPMorgan. That's how you need to bring up people, great talent, right? You have to give them the space. You have to trust them to do their thing. You have to take their back because, inadvertently, things will go wrong. Like, this is the business world. Things often go wrong. And you need to have their back. You shouldn't be throwing them under the bus. But if they do well, they should be deserving of all the plaudits, and then they develop in their life. So, yes, I think that was a huge moment or a huge meeting in my career that I always remember fondly. 

[00:31:05] Ella:  Yeah. It's such a great anecdote. And these seminal moments stay with us, don't they? I had a ferocious mentor in my early career who was equal parts scary and sort of like a dad. When he had a proud moment, he would gather everyone in the office and give a speech about how everyone conducted themselves yesterday, and he'd live for those moments. He really lived for those moments, but he was also really, really tough. And it's interesting. I think we're probably about the same age. A decade or so on from some of those moments, it's interesting what you remember and what you realise was a real seminal moment that taught you something. At the time, maybe I cried through it, or whatever, but those kinds of figures play such an important role in how we conduct ourselves now in leadership roles. And there are things I didn't take with me from how some of those people led, but that real belief in your team members and giving them the plaudits, it's so important. I know we don't have a huge amount of time left, but I wanted to take a little bit of time to ask you because you're at JPMorgan for quite a long time. You built a really successful career there. What made you choose to leave and to move to Mews and continue those human relationships, but from a different vantage point? 

[00:32:16] Hemant:  Yeah. That's a very good question. So I think, look, it was really hard to leave JPMorgan. Right? I did a really, really fun time there. My team was fantastic. My boss was fantastic, as I had mentioned. I was meeting founders, CEOs, and CFOs day in and day out, and it was a really cool place to be. So, it was not easy to make a switch. I think there were a few things that factored into the decision. One was I joined JPMorgan right out of college, and that was the only one job I'd had throughout my career, right? And I just wanted to try something different because I felt that if I stayed for a couple of years more, I'll never leave JPMorgan. And then I might not try anything else. And I was like, this is the right time. I've spent a decade or a bit more than that. Let's just try something else. And if I don't like it, I can always go back, but it's worth trying something new. The second thing was that, because I was covering the software or SaaS sector across all of Europe, I had a very good vantage point on which are the best software companies coming out of Europe, and Mews was at the top quarter. So, when we were having the discussions, that positioning, that understanding of the business model, and the quality of the company really helped. And last but not least, look, I really liked the people and the culture from the interviews. Like, I distinctly remember having one of my interviews with Richard, our founder. And the way he was asking me questions and the way he was focused on things were exactly the same things that resonated a lot with me and things that I would focus on. It was a conversation that was set up for one hour, but it went on for longer than that. And we didn't want to leave because the conversation was so interesting, but he had to be pulled away because you know Richard. Right? Sometimes it's very, very hard to pull him away. But that just gave me a lot of confidence. And this, again, goes back to the relationship thing. Right? I think if you find that the people you are speaking to are generally genuine, they are hardworking, they are smart, you believe they can lead the company in the right way, you do want to follow that. And you really have to believe in the founders and the leadership team because they are the ones who are going to be making or breaking the company. So, I think because all those things checked out, I decided that this is the right time to make the switch and to make it onto Mews. 

[00:34:21] Ella:  Yeah. Lovely. I mean, I couldn't agree more. And first of all, I resonate with you on that first conversation with Richard. I had a similar. Do you have a bit more time? You know? Yeah. Let's carry on. But believing not only in what the company does and that the brand is cool and that the product is interesting, but really having trust and faith in the leadership team and in the people. From a values perspective, my experience of conversations is as rich as they can get, quite philosophical. Being able to kind of bat ideas forward and see how they think, I think, is really a valuable thing, especially if you're gonna join a company that is gonna ask a lot of you and is gonna have extremely high targets, and it's not gonna be an easy job. That belief in the leadership team is such an important thing. Having seen both the JPMorgan context and now the Mews context, what do you think each world, so the world of the high-growth tech startup, I guess, and the world of global investment banking, do you think there's anything that one could learn from the other? 

[00:35:19] Hemant:  Absolutely. I think from a high-growth tech perspective, what I've learned is that we are very, very fast in adopting some of the new tools and technologies. Right? So, for example, when it comes to the usage of AI tools, Cursor, Claude, and Glean, I think we can just pretty much use whatever we want in high-growth tech. I think in investment banking, given that it's very regulated, it's hard to bring these things on very quickly. And that's where there is a lag. And sometimes with these things, the lag is the issue because by the time you get onto that tool, there is a better tool out there, especially with the speed of development that we are seeing out there. So, I think that's something that banking can take from high growth. Somehow, finding a way to integrate these new technologies faster and bring them to employees faster, because that should definitely help. On the flip side, I would say more structure because I think when you look at these investment banks, they have been operating for years and years. Right? And there's a very good structure. A lot of the hiring, onboarding, and operating that has set mechanisms in place on how things are supposed to work, and you just follow those, and it works for everyone. It also ensures that everyone is at parity and one person is not treated differently from others. I think that is something that high-growth tech can learn from global investment banking. It's a function of time and maturity. When you are a young startup, of course, you don't have the money to put in structure. It will slow you down. But as you become bigger and bigger, I think structure definitely helps to make sure that you are not treating each case differently and there are bespoke rules for everyone. 

[00:36:49] Ella:  Yeah. Structure can be a real antidote to bias and things like that. So, even the basics of having structured interview processes, I, in a consulting capacity, have worked with companies who just bring people in and just have a chat, and then the next guy has a chat and whatever. And those kinds of things, you can see how they evolve in that way when you're a startup, but they're not, a, gonna give you the best candidate in that particular example or, b, gonna be particularly good for ensuring that you're having unbiased systems and things like that in place. So, yeah, it's that thing of building the rocket ship while you're on it, but you do still need to make sure you're doing a proper build. Final question, because I could speak to you all day, but I don't want to monopolise too much of your time. As technology is obviously transforming our industry, it's transforming finance and hospitality. What gives you confidence that the human element will continue to remain central? 

[00:37:41] Hemant:  I think what so many years of history has taught us and what my personal time in finance has taught me, I think ultimately the business is about relationships. Actually, it's not about money. It is about money. But I think finance as a whole, as an industry, attracts a lot of highly talented, highly ambitious people who are very, very well paid. What breaks the barrier or what differentiates a person from their competitor is what they bring on the human side. Because after a period of time, what you can do on the analysis side or what you can do on spreadsheets, it can only go so far. And it's replicable now, especially in the age of AI. What works beyond that is the magic. How you communicate that, how simple are your messages, how can you negotiate with counterparties, how respectful you are, how well you understand the language of CEOs, CFOs, and founders, how well do you understand their pain points without them saying this? How are you helping them solve these challenges, and some of these things are only possible by people talking to each other, rather than you talking to a screen and the screen giving you answers? Real experience is always much more valuable than what you have on screen or read in books, right? Because I think if you talk to people who have done that before, the amount of things that you will learn from talking to them is oftentimes more than what you would get by chatting with Claude or ChatGPT. So, that's what I think, even though there will be prevalence of a lot of the AI tools, which I think is a great step to make a lot of inefficient things more efficient. Ultimately, the differentiation has continued to be in human relationships and the human touch. 

[00:39:26] Ella:  Yeah. It almost becomes more important as the automation increases because it differentiates one thing from another. Yeah. That's a lovely place to end, I think. Thank you so much, Hemant, for talking to me today. It was really fantastic to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much. 

[00:39:41] Hemant:  Thank you so much for the great questions. It was an absolute pleasure, and I look forward to chatting soon.  

[00:39:46] Ella: Thanks, Hemant.  

[00:39:48] Hemant:  Take care. 

[00:39:50] Ella:  The Future is Human is brought to you by Mews. If you want to learn more about what we do, visit mews.com. And if this conversation resonated, you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen. Hit subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Thanks for listening.